CC: Hi, and welcome back to Taxology, the official podcast from the Canada Revenue Agency.

Today's episode is the second part of our last episode on scams. So if you haven't already, please go and check out Part 1.

On our last episode, we talked scams and the way to protect…

Hello?

Scammer: This is the Canada Revenue Agency. There is a warrant out right now for your arrest. If you do not pay, you will be arrested shortly and receive lengthy jail time.

CC: Uh, as I was saying on our last episode, we talked about scams and learned ways to protect yourself and identify scam callers, just like I did with that one.

And I'm going to say it does give you a lot of pleasure when you hang up on them and know you didn't get scammed.

On this episode, we continue our chat with the CRA expert with tips to protect yourself from tax scams.

We'll also chat with someone from our marketing team who will pull back the curtain on our Be Scam Smart campaign.

You might be surprised at some of the inventive ways were using to help taxpayers about scams.

So now here's Part 2 of our anti scam episode. Enjoy. First on the show is Hayley, who will provide us with tips specific to tax-related frauds and scams and the way scammers pretend to be the CRA.

Whether it's promising you fake refunds, or threatening jail time for unpaid taxes, there are a lot of ways that scammers impersonate us to try and get money from you. Hayley will discuss how to tell the difference between a real communication from the CRA versus a scam, what to do if you may have been a victim of a tax scam, and other tips to protect yourself.

Let's welcome Hayley, who's joining us remotely.

CC: Thanks for coming Hayley.

Hayley: Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to talk about scams.

CC: Well, tell us first, what do you do at the CRA?

Hayley: I work on the strategic communications team on the scams and fraud file. Helping get the word out about what to watch out for, for scams, and how the CRA can help you if you do get scammed.

CC: So you work in communications. How can I tell the difference between real communications from the CRA and a scam?

Hayley: That’s a great question because scams are constantly changing, so it's pretty hard to be prescriptive, but generally there's some red flags that you can look out for depending on the type of communication.

Let's say you've got a phone call. Usually the person that's calling you will be speaking about something that's super urgent. They might use like, really threatening language.

Whereas when a CRA agent calls you, they're generally pretty polite. They'll tell you the reason for the call. They'll be able to give you something you know to identify themselves. Their name, maybe a callback number, or an agent number.

And yeah, they'll be able to tell you the reason for the call today, and they won't be pressuring you to do anything super urgently. If the stakes feel really high, If it feels like you have to give over information right away or something bad happens, usually a red flag that it's a scammer.

And similarly for other types of communications like text messages, we won't text you a link. We won't text you something about your refund. We’ll use like a secure portal to get that message across.

So those are some of the things that you can look out for. Is the person asking you to reply right away or they demanding something? Are they asking you to click on a link or else something bad will happen or you won't get the money?

These are kind of things that you can look out for to see the difference between a real communication from the CRA or an actual agent, and then a scammer.

CC: So a secure portal that you're talking about, something like My Account?

Hayley: Yes. Yeah, My Account or My Business Account.

CC: Perfect. How can you verify it’s a legit message or call from the CRA?

Hayley: In general, when you get a message or a phone call saying that it's from an agency or an organization, it's really good practice to verify it yourself by taking a minute to look up the information from the source.

For the CRA, you can do this by going to our official Canada.ca web pages. That way you're always connecting with the verified information.

We even have a new tool called “Verify a CRA phone number” on Canada.ca/verifycracontact, it'll be able to give you all of the phone numbers where you can reach us directly. You basically type in the phone number and it will tell you whether or not it's a publicized CRA phone number.

But it only works for our general lines, not individual agents, so it won't display an employee phone number. But it will show you whether or not the call that you got is from a publicized Canada.ca line. And what's great about this tool is that you can kind of check it and then it will give you the actual phone number where you can call us back directly and ensure that you are actually speaking with the CRA.

CC: OK, so the CRA will call you from time to time.

Hayley: Yes, phone calls are a common way that we contact taxpayers and often we call just to do a quick confirmation about something or request additional information or documentation.

It's not the only way that we reach out to taxpayers. We also get in touch by sending letters in the mail. We often do this for more complex matters, or if there's more information to convey.

Letters are good way to ensure that the taxpayer has time to review the information, so if it's really complex or long explanation, letter can often be a more useful tool to convey that than over the phone.

And something about CRA letters, they typically have a number to call back to, so if you have any questions. But, if you ever doubt the number in a letter that says that it's from the CRA, again you can check it from this website that I was saying before canada.ca/verifycracontact.

CC: OK. And just like the CRA will call you, does the CRA send texts or not send texts?

Hayley: The CRA does not send text messages that include links or information about your tax refunds. The only text message you'll ever receive from the CRA is related to two factor authentication.

Where they send you a code that helps you sign in to a service online like My Account or My Business Account. So the only text you'll ever receive is for two factor authentication.

Anything that tells you that it's related to a refund or benefit or credit. Anything that contains a link saying click here to you know, verify this information about yourself.

Definitely a red flag that it is a scammer.

CC: OK, so I need to look up on Google the phone number that is displayed on my phone in the call display. It's just so that I can make sure that it's actually the CRA, right?

Hayley: Yeah, we recommend this because scammers are always improving their methods, using new technologies to try and deceive people.

One of the things we've seen is they'll actually spoof or trick the display on your phone and the caller ID to say that it's the Canada Revenue Agency.

So if you get a call, you might pull out your phone and see on the screen that it says CRA. And you might answer it thinking that it's a legitimate call, but actually it's not.

So because we're aware of this tactic, we recommend looking up the official CRA phone number, at canada.ca/verifycracontact, and by calling one of those numbers that you see on Canada.ca, you'll be able to get in touch with real CRA agent.

We also recommend typing the phone number into your phone manually and not using redial. When you actually type the number out, it ensures that you're actually connecting with a real CRA agent and not the number that tried spoofing your caller ID.

So a bit more extra work, but worth it in the end to make sure that you're actually connecting with someone that works at CRA.

CC: What are some other reasons an agent might call?

Hayley: There's many reasons an agent might call, but some of the common ones are that usually we’ll call for routine check, so that's to verify and answer to a question, or maybe resolve a discrepancy that's found in your return. Or we might have to validate some information that we have on your file and just double check that it's still accurate.

It's a red flag if someone is pressuring you about payments to the CRA, especially by cryptocurrencies or gift cards, which are common scams. So checking information is usually normal, something that you could expect from a call from the CRA. But definitely cryptocurrencies and gift cards, anything of that matter, especially if it's urgent. Another red flag for a scam.

CC: Other than doing a reverse phone number search, what are other ways that I can verify that it's really the CRA?

Hayley: Great question.

Again, I would stress that using a secure portal like My Account or My Business Account is a way that you can tell a communication is directly from the CRA.

We also have launched some newer initiatives where, you know some reasons that the CRA might contact you. There's lots more than what I mentioned today because we deal with so many different tax requirements and obligations. you can find it on canada.ca/verifycracontact.

So there's lots of reasons listed. If you do get, you know a voicemail or phone call where they're asking for a particular type of information, you could go to that web page and double check.

CC: What should someone do if they've been scammed by someone pretending that they're the CRA?

Hayley: Oh, this is a great question, um, especially because we're super happy to talk about scam prevention, but it's equally as important to give information about, you know, what to do if you have been scammed.

Oftentimes at the CRA will say that some scams are easy to spot, but others are not. So if this happens to you, there are things that you can do and the CRA is definitely here to help you.

I would say the first thing to do is contact the CRA and let them know. If you call us and let us know that there's something maybe suspicious, you gave away information, you're worried about your account being compromised.

By getting in touch and letting us know, we can actually put protections on your account and, you know, do some things to kind of mitigate the concern that you're worried about.

In addition, after you've let us know there's some other, you know, groups and agencies or organizations that we recommend informing, and that includes your local police service, especially if you've lost money, and then your bank and the two credit reporting agencies.

So these are all kind of interested parties that will have different roles and functions that can help you if you've been scammed and if you've lost money.

And maybe the last thing to know is that even if you haven't lost money, but you know you did receive a scam that you're concerned about. You can report it to the Canadian Anti Fraud Centre. The CAFC is kind of a central repository and they basically really benefit from knowing about all of the scams that happen across Canada.

So you can report the scam that you received, whether it's like a text message scam, a phone call. Anything with a suspicious link, don't click on this link, but you can report it to them and let them know. And in certain cases the CAFC will be able to investigate that scam report that you've sent to them.

And it's just really beneficial to have like a broader picture of scams across the country.

OK, um, once you've let all of those other organizations and agencies know, there's a few different things that you can do specifically in terms of getting in touch with the CRA.

So the first thing that you want to do is just call us or submit a form online that basically says that there's suspected fraud on your account.

And then we can take steps to protect your information. There's a good link actually, Canada.ca/taxesfraudprevention.

You can find information about how to report an initiate that process.

So anytime that you are worried about your account, just remember that the CRA is here to help you, and there are certain things that we can do on our end to make sure that your information in your account is protected.

CC: Yeah, you were talking about the protections that the agents can put on an account that's been compromised. What can we expect as the next steps?

Hayley: Our agents can basically place protections on your account by disabling all access to your account, and then we have a team that works with you to review your account and get in touch with you either by phone or letter, to validate your identity so that you can regain access to your account.

If your account is actually compromised we’ll then work with you to restore your personal information and make sure that you aren't held liable for any fraudulent claims or benefits, payments, that have been made on your account, and depending on your case, you might be entitled to credit protection services.

So super important that you reach out and let us know because we'll try to do whatever we can to help you depending on what the case is.

And these are some of the things that we'll do to respond to a scam in general, but as always, it's a case by case basis to see what's needed in that particular instance so that we're actually helping the taxpayer make sure that their information is protected and that their account is restored.

CC: That’s super helpful. What are some of the more popular tax scams you've seen while I've been working at the CRA?

Hayley: I would say one of the more popular ones is a phishing scam, either by text or e-mail. Phishing, with a “ph” not an “f”, is when a scammer pretends to be reputable, company or organization.

So totally makes sense for CRA, right? We are well known to Canadians.

It could be a bank or something else. Phishing is really wide variety of scams. But, it's when a scammer pretends to be from a reputable company or organization and then tries to steal your personal or financial information. And it can usually be by trying to get you to click on a link, right? And input some of these personal details like we were talking about before.

And the thing that's really specific about these phishing scams is that, you know, scammers are pretty smart. They're paying attention to, you know, when organizations like these that they're, you know, impersonating what they communicate about and when.

So during specific times of the year, like tax time, when Canadians are expecting to hear from refunds. We do see an uptick in these types of scams.

Similarly, they're kind of attuned to when benefits and credits are released on a schedule that's published on Canada.ca. So we also see an uptick of scams around the time that we release benefits and credits. And it's something that we definitely try to warn Canadians about.

We even launched a scam alert web page and it corresponds with our social media. So whenever we notice a particularly prevalent scam, we publish it.

We work with our partners to get the word out and let people know not to fall for it, because it can be really hard to keep up with all of the different scams. Um, we want to, you know, keep an eye on it and let people know when we're seeing something really popular. It could help a lot of people to get the word out.

CC: Hayley, what's something that you want everyone to know about scams?

Hayley: If I had to choose just one thing, because I feel like I could talk about them forever. An important thing to remember is that time is on your side.

So when you receive a text or an e-mail, even a letter or a phone call, you don't have to do what the person is telling you to do right away.

The more urgent or demanding it feels, time is actually on your side. You can hang up the phone. You can close your messages app and take a breath or take a minute.

And then try to ask yourself by slowing down, you know, “do I need to answer this right away?”

Oftentimes scammers are trying to capitalize on the fact that Canadians actually do want to, you know, fulfill their tax obligations. So the fact that you know, you hear something from the CRA and you think,
“Well, I really have to respond to this right away or I might get in trouble.”

So yeah, something I would just want everyone to know about scams is time is on your side. You can, you know, take back some control by getting in touch, verifying and not deciding right away. And that's something that's true for CRA scams, but also scams in general.

Scammers really benefit from and rely on the fact that you might be scared or a feeling like you have to react in that moment. And more often than not, if you do take the time to, you know, make your own decision or verify and disconnect from that particular communication.

If it's important enough, you'll be able to reconnect once you verified the actual organization that's trying to reach out to you, and you'll be able to sort out the affairs that, that they were trying to contact you if it is legitimate.

CC: This was a lot of information and I feel inspired to learn more. Where can I get more info?

Hayley: I would say you can get more information definitely from our social media channels, so @CanRevAgency. And then also our Canada.ca web pages have a lot of information that you can find. Especially for different people that you might know. You might have people in your family that you would want to send this to. Friends, so you can find more information at canada.ca/taxesfraudprevention.

And there will be all of the information that we discussed today, plus a lot more detail. And something nice is that actually we do update these pages quite regularly. So they're not stagnant pages.

There's something that if you really want to keep up with us and stay on top of scams because they're always changing and getting more sophisticated, you can…yeah, feel confident that this information is up to date and we really are trying to keep you know as much relevant information as possible to help Canadians on there.

CC: Any last thoughts or tips and tricks you'd like to share with our listeners?

Hayley: Yeah. Just wanted to say thank you so much for the opportunity to come on here. It's um, it's really been a pleasure.

CC: Well, thank you for coming.

Next on the show is Lisa from the CRA who's leading the Be Scam Smart campaign. She's going to share what we've been doing to help inform taxpayers about scams like the interactive escape room.

Yes, you heard that right. An escape room. So welcome, Lisa.

Lisa: Thank you for having me.

CC: Tell us a bit about who you are.

Lisa: Oh, my name is Lisa and I am the project lead for some of the CRA's marketing and advertising campaigns, one of which is the Be Scam Smart campaign.

CC: Tell me about the Be Scam Smart campaign.

Lisa: Well, I think everybody has gotten some sort of text message, e-mail, phone call, what have you.

CC: Definitely.

Lisa: Yeah. From, a lot of them are from Canada Revenue Agency. But there is some other departments that have been mentioned as well. Service Canada and a few others. So a lot of scams with the Government of Canada name.

So they just seem to be increasing more as the years go by. And we did, you know, back when I started back in 2018, did a few smaller campaigns that just kind of let people know about some of the scams that were mentioning the Canada Revenue Agency.

And then when 2020 hit with the pandemic. There was a surge when they announced the emergency benefits.

And so, we decided that we had to take a more collaborative approach and we worked with other government departments and CRA led what is now known as the Be Scam Smart campaign, which highlighted all of the scams involving kind of the Government of Canada name.

And, the whole purpose of it is just to try and raise awareness of, you know, they're out there and just be aware. And that's when we explored the idea of the Be Scam Smart escape room.

CC: I love escape rooms. Tell me more.

Lisa: So the escape room itself, what we tried to do was build the escape room around everyday life, and we built in both legitimate Government of Canada communications and scams. So how it works is there's three rooms and in order to move into the next room you have to determine whether or not the pieces of communication in that room is real, or if it's fake.

And did I mention that there's a timer while you're doing this so…

CC: Oh no!

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. So you really are under a little bit of pressure, but we really did want to make it like it was real life. You know, most of us are running from work to home. We've got stuff. We've got our groceries. We've got things to do. And then while all this is happening, you're getting these messages and it's very easy to make a mistake while you're just doing life.

CC: Yeah, because you're distracted by other things. And if you're like me, I'm an optimist. So I always think that I'm going to get places really quickly, and then I'm always in a rush.

Lisa: I can see that, I can see that. Like when I do the same. The time management of like “It's only going to take me this amount of time.”

And I think the other thing is that you want to...Scammers are sophisticated. So, you think that you'll be able to figure out, it's going to be easy.

OK, I know. And some of them are super obvious, but all it takes is that one thing of, you know, you get, you know, that you've filed your taxes and you know, you're getting a refund.

And then all of a sudden you have an e-mail that says, oh, the Canada Revenue Agency has given me my e-mail, or my refund via e-mail. OK. And you're busy doing and you're not paying attention. And the next thing you know have been scammed.

and they look really legitimate. Some of them have the Canada wordmark, and they've gone into, you know, put a lot of effort into making it look like it's an actual piece of communication.

CC: What was the reaction to the escape rooms?

Lisa: Overwhelmingly positive.

We had so much feedback from people just absolutely loving the fact that we were doing something like this. They are…they were constantly expressing the need for the government to be doing things like this. They thought it was fun. They were engaged people.

It takes about 10 minutes to actually go through the rooms. People were waiting in line, just hanging out, speaking to strangers. It was…

CC: Oh my gosh!

Lisa: It was, just something really fun to see.

So, it's not very often that you get to put something out where it just generates that kind of positive buzz, and that's what that did. We had media come and cover it. It was great. Fantastic.

CC: Did people do really well? Like was there an average score people had?

Lisa: OK, so this was what was great, because the whole idea behind this was, trying to change that perception that it won't happen to me.

So a lot of people when they went through, they started out all confident thinking “I will be able to spot them. It won't be a problem.”

And then they were coming out at the end and they were shocked at their score. So on average, people were scoring about 63%.

CC: Oh my gosh!

Lisa: Yeah, so. What's great about that is, yeah, OK, nobody failed necessarily. But 63%, you still have that other 35% where you could have been scammed. So it really made people stop and think.

Maybe I need to pay attention more, maybe not. Maybe I'm not, as you know, up to speed or educated on scams as I thought I was.

CC: Yeah, and not a spoiler alert or anything, but was there like a section that really tricked people?

Lisa: You know what it for everybody? It was different. Some people had trouble with the phone calls. Some people had trouble with the emails. The letters threw people off.

Some people were like “People don't…the Government of Canada doesn't send letters, so you know, all of them were scams.”

But we do send letters. So there wasn't really one thing. And I think that really comes down to, you know, just the types of communication that people are used to.

So, you know, maybe the text messages, the youth who are more tech savvy, so to speak, may have thought some of those were legitimate, whereas seniors may not have thought that, you know, the emails they might have had trouble deciphering those.

So I don't…I don't think that there was any one area. It was really kind of spread across.

CC: So you're under a time crunch?

Lisa: Yes.

CC: That's the worst. So much pressure.

Lisa: So much, and there were just small nuances like we purposely made it difficult. Just so that it was, you know, representative of what you're actually going to see in real life.

CC: Was there any one city in Canada that was like super scam smart?

Lisa: Not that we saw, although I did hear in Saskatoon, somebody did get the first 100%.

Yeah, so it happened, but I feel like they got a lot of time…

CC: Was it a team?

Lisa: Well, it could have been. And I think they had a lot of time to brush up.

You know, this is round 2, so they had a lot of time to brush up, so maybe. Maybe they had a little bit of an advantage.

CC: Was there anything that surprised you about this whole project?

Lisa: Yes. The fact…so when we first kind of started working on this campaign, there was always, we knew that scams were under reported, and the thinking behind that was there was a lot of embarrassment, shame. You know, if you were a victim, you know how to, you know “I'm stupid. How did I fall for that?”

But what we found by creating this environment. There were a lot of people when they were standing in line or speaking to the people that were working the escape room. They were actually telling stories about how they had been scammed and what it…

CC: Oh wow.

Lisa: Yeah, what it brought about was people were like “it's not just me, it’s somebody else,”

CC: Yeah, yeah.

Lisa: And some of the things and the amounts of money that people lost were quite alarming. So, it just went against, it kind of changed my perception of what I thought people would share, and we kind of took away from that. Just in that type of environment that maybe people would be more apt to sharing their experiences if it's in the right environment.

CC: I hope they reported it to the Canadian Anti Fraud Centre.

Lisa: It is important, and law enforcement well. Law enforcement if you've actually been scammed and then yes, if you just get any type of scam, Canadian Anti Fraud Centre likes to hear it.

CC: If I miss the escape room, where can I find more information?

Lisa: There are a lot of materials and information on our web page, so Canada.ca/be-scam-smart.

There's posters, there's links to other government websites that just will give you all the information that you need. A link to our scam alert page, lots of different things.

I also recommend following CRA’s social media channels because there's a lot of uh, posts and information that go out on scams, scam alerts, that type of thing. So you'll stay up to date that way as well.

CC: Awesome. Thanks for joining us today, Lisa.

Lisa: Thank you for having me

CC: And that's a wrap on Part 2. A big thank you to our guests for joining us in today's show. If you'd like to learn more to protect yourself from scams, go to Canada.ca/taxes-fraud-prevention or check us out on Facebook, X or Instagram @CanRevAgency.

On top of helping taxpayers understand the risks of scams, the CRA also puts significant effort into fighting fraud, and continually takes steps to safeguard your sensitive information against these ever-evolving threats. Go to Canada.ca/taxes-security to learn about our security measures to protect your info.

I'm your host, CC, and I can't wait to bring you more super exciting tax information on this season of Taxology. Until then, stay safe and do your taxes.