Mahoney,
J.:—This
appeal
is
taken
against
the
following
interlocutory
order
of
the
Trial
Division:
IT
IS
ORDERED
THAT
the
defendant,
Amway
Corporation,
upon
an
appointment
being
served
upon
its
solicitors,
produce
either
Jay
VanAndel
or
Richard
DeVos
for
examination
for
discovery.
Neither
VanAndel
nor
DeVos
reside
in
Canada.
An
amount
of
almost
$150
million
is
sought
to
be
recovered
in
the
action,
which
deals
with
transactions
between
January
7
and
May
6,
1977,
and
similar
actions
dealing
with
transactions
during
other
periods
of
time.
In
an
earlier
judgment
involving
the
same
parties
and
actions,
A-915-85,
rendered
September
15,
1986,
I
characterized
the
amounts
sought
to
be
recovered
as
“duty,
sales
tax,
interest
and
forfeiture”.
This
appeal
requires
a
precise
characterization
of
the
nature
of
the
action
as
three
of
the
four
grounds
of
appeal
are
predicated
on
the
theses
that
it
is
a
penal
action
and
that
the
appellant
is,
in
the
action,
a
person
charged
with
an
offence.
That
appears
to
have
been
the
conclusion
reached
by
the
learned
trial
judge
who
held,
at
13-14
(C.T.C.
156)
of
her
reasons,
that
the
deemed
forfeiture
provisions
of
sections
180
and
192
of
the
Customs
Act
provide
for
the
imposition
of
a
penalty
for
the
commission
of
an
offence,
by
means
of
a
civil
procedure.
The
respondent
sought
to
find
a
different
characterization
in
the
following,
at
24
(C.T.C.
160)
of
the
reasons:
.
.
.
this
would
only
excuse
the
defendants
from
discovery
insofar
as
the
deemed
forfeitures
are
concerned.
They
would
not
be
excused
from
discovery
with
respect
to
the
duties
and
taxes
owing.
It
is
true
that,
in
paragraph
9
of
the
statement
of
claim,
it
is
alleged
that
the
defendants
are
liable
to
Her
Majesty
for
additional
duties
of
$1,299,119.31
pursuant
to
section
102
of
the
Customs
Act,
R.S.C.
1970,
c.
C-40.
However,
judgment
in
respect
of
that
alleged
liability
is
not
sought
in
this
action.
The
relief
sought,
in
addition
to
costs
and
the
usual
“such
further
and
other
relief”,
is
limited
to
"the
sum
of
$9,415,706.66
by
way
of
forfeiture”.
In
reaching
her
conclusion,
the
learned
trial
judge
carefully
considered
the
pertinent
provisions
of
the
Customs
Act,
the
Excise
Act,
R.S.C.
1970,
c.
E-13,
and
the
authorities.
I
agree
with
the
learned
trial
judge
in
the
conclusion
that
the
applicable
provisions
of
section
180,
and
192
of
the
Customs
Act,*
taken
with
sections
249
and
252,
provide
for
the
recovery
of
a
penalty
by
a
civil
proceeding
in
this
Court
and,
it
follows,
that
this
is
a
penal
action.
I
also
agree
with
the
reasoning
of
the
learned
trial
judge
in
reaching
those
conclusions.
I
likewise
agree
that
a
defendant
in
this
action
is
a
person
charged
with
an
offence.
“Charge”
is
not
a
term
of
art.
The
Supreme
Court
of
Canada,
per
Dickson,
J.,
as
he
then
was,
in
R.
v.
Chabot.,
[1980]
2
S.C.R.
985
at
1005;
55
C.C.C.
(2d)
385
at
401
said:
-.
.
.
As
the
Supreme
Court
of
the
United
States
observed
in
United
States
v.
Patterson,
(1893)
150
U.S.R.
65
at
p.
68,
a
criminal
charge,
strictly
speaking,
exists
only
when
a
formal
written
complaint
has
been
made
against
the
accused
and
a
prosecution
initiated.
“In
the
eyes
of
the
law
a
person
is
charged
with
crime
only
when
he
is
called
upon
in
a
legal
proceeding
to
answer
to
such
a
charge.”
The
statement
of
claim
alleges:
5.
The
Defendants
made
untrue
declarations
to
Customs
concerning
the
fair
market
value
of
the
goods
contrary
to
the
provisions
of
Section
18
and
180
of
the
Customs
Act.
6.
The
Defendants
therefore
passed
false
invoices
in
respect
of
the
said
goods
through
the
Customs
House
and
did
thereby
avoid
payment
of
part
of
the
duty
properly
payable
on
the
said
goods
contrary
to
the
provisions
of
Section
192(1)(b)
of
the
Customs
Act.
An
action
is
a
legal
proceeding;
offences
are
charged
in
the
statement
of
claim;
the
appellant
was
called
upon
to
answer
them
when
the
statement
of
claim
was
served.
A
second
matter
requiring
definition,
before
the
specific
grounds
of
appeal
are
considered,
is
the
status
of
a
corporation
being
examined
for
discovery.
Is
the
corporation,
in
law,
the
witness
notwithstanding
that,
of
necessity,
it
speaks
through
the
medium
of
a
human
representative?
The
absence
of
authority
directly
on
the
point
leads
one
to
suspect
that
an
affirmative
answer
to
that
question
has
been
generally
taken
for
granted.
Surely
if
a
corporation
were
not
accorded
a
like
right
to
an
individual
party
not
to
incriminate
itself
on
discovery,
there
would
be
jurisprudence
to
that
effect.
The
proposed
examination
for
discovery
is
to
be
conducted
under
the
general
authority
of
Rule
465(1
)(b).
Rule
465.
(1)
For
the
purpose
of
this
Rule,
a
party
may
be
examined
for
discovery,
as
hereinafter
in
this
Rule
provided,
(b)
if
the
party
is
a
corporation
or
any
body
or
group
of
persons
empowered
by
law
to
sue
or
to
be
sued,
either
in
its
own
name
or
in
the
name
of
any
officer
or
other
person,
by
questioning
any
member
or
officer
of
such
corporation,
body
or
group,
and,
in
this
Rule,
a
party
who
is
being,
or
is
to
be,
so
examined
for
discovery
is
sometimes
referred
to
as
the
“party
being
examined”
or
the
"party
to
be
examined”
as
the
case
may
be,
and
the
individual
who
is
being,
or
is
to
be,
questioned
is
sometimes
referred
to
as
the
“individual
being
questioned”
or
the
“individual
to
be
questioned”,
as
the
case
may
be.
(15)
Upon
examination
for
discovery
otherwise
than
under
paragraph
(5),
the
individual
being
questioned
shall
answer
any
question
as
to
any
fact
within
the
knowledge
or
means
of
knowledge
of
the
party
being
examined
for
discovery
that
may
prove
or
tend
to
prove
or
disprove
or
tend
to
disprove
any
unadmitted
allegation
of
fact
in
any
pleading
filed
by
the
party
being
examined
for
discovery
or
the
examining
party.
While
it
is
the
“individual
being
questioned”,
it
is
the
corporation
that
is
the
"party
being
examined”.
The
purpose
of
an
examination
for
discovery
is
twofold:
to
ascertain
the
facts
upon
which
the
party
being
examined
bases
its
case
and
to
obtain
admissions
of
fact
which
may
be
used
in
evidence
against
the
party
being
examined.
Except
where
Rule
465(5)
applies,
and
that
is
not
the
present
case,
the
individual
being
questioned
is
required
to
obtain
and
give
answers
outside
his
personal
knowledge
but
within
that
of
the
party
being
examined.
Such
answers
are
not
evidence
at
all
in
so
far
as
the
individual
being
questioned
is
concerned;
they
are
hearsay,
but
they
are
the
evidence
of
the
party
being
examined,
the
corporation.
Both
In
re
Corning
Glass,
(1970)
3
C.C.C.
(2d)
204;
16
D.L.R.
(3d)
609,
and
R.
v.
N.
M.
Paterson
and
Sons
Limited,
[1980]
2
S.C.R.
679;
117
D.L.R.
(3d)
517,
were
concerned
with
the
compellability
of
corporate
officers
to
testify
at
the
trials
of
their
corporations,
not
with
officers
being
examined
for
discovery.
In
the
former,
Arnup,
J.A.,
for
the
Ontario
Court
of
Appeal,
contrasted
the
position
of
an
officer
called
as
a
witness
at
trial
and
one
being
examined
for
discovery
on
behalf
of
his
company,
at
208ff
(D.L.R.
613-14).
In
my
view,
there
are
fundamental
differences
between
evidence
given
on
examination
for
discovery
of
a
person
produced
by
a
corporation
for
that
purpose
and
evidence
given
at
trial
by
a
witness
who
is
an
officer
or
employee
of
that
corporation.
On
discovery,
the
witness
literally
speaks
for
the
corporation.
He
has
been
described,
as
long
ago
as
1902,
as
the
“mouthpiece”
of
the
corporation:
Morrison
v.
Grand
Trunk
R.
Co.
(1902),
5
O.L.R.
38,
2
C.R.C.
398.
The
term
was
adopted,
with
reference
to
a
servant
of
the
corporation,
by
Roach,
J.,
in
Fisher
v.
Pain
et
al.,
[1938]
O.W.N.
74
at
p.
76,
[1938]
2
D.L.R.
753n.
As
pointed
out
by
Grant,
J.,
if
such
a
witness
does
not
know
the
answer
to
a
relevant
question,
he
must
inform
himself
from
others
employed
by
the
corporation
or
from
its
records.
Conversely,
he
may
be
examined
only
as
to
matters
coming
to
his
knowledge
as
an
officer
of
the
corporation.
Knowledge
which
he
has
acquired
otherwise
than
as
such
officer
cannot
be
explored:
Fisher
v.
Pain,
supra.
At
the
trial,
a
witness
subpoenaed
to
give
evidence,
who
happens
to
be
a
servant,
officer
or
even
president
and
controlling
shareholder
of
a
corporate
accused,
is
not
called
upon
to
speak
“for”
the
corporation.
He
is
not
its
“mouthpiece”.
He
is
required
to
testify
as
to
all
relevant
facts
within
his
knowledge,
whether
those
facts
were
acquired
by
him
during
his
employment
or
term
of
office
or
were
acquired
in
circumstances
completely
unrelated
to
the
corporation.
He
is
in
no
different
position
from
a
witness
who
had
been
in
complete
charge
of
the
corporation's
affairs
for
many
years,
but
has
retired
before
the
charge
against
it
was
laid.
Both
must
tell
what
they
know,
so
far
as
it
is
relevant
and
admissible.
Both
are
entitled
to
all
the
protection
that
is
available
to
any
witness,
and
in
particular,
the
protection
against
self-incrimination
found
in
both
the
Canada
Evidence
Act,
R.S.C.
c.
307,
and
the
Ontario
Evidence
Act,
R.S.O.
1960,
c.
125.
At
trial
the
corporation
is
not
a
witness.
It
is
not
being
“self-incriminated”
because
one
of
its
managers
is
giving
damaging
evidence
in
the
witness-box.
In
my
view,
cases
decided
on
the
obligation
of
a
corporation
to
produce
documents
which
might
tend
to
incriminate
it
are
also
distinguishable.
The
production
to
be
made
is
that
of
the
corporation
and
not
that
of
its
officer
who
swears
the
affidavit
on
production.
Here,
too,
such
officer
is
merely
the
“mouthpiece”,
the
spokesman
of
the
written
words,
on
behalf
of
and
as
the
corporation.
In
R.
v.
Paterson,
at
691
(D.L.R.
526),
Chouinard,
J.,
delivering
the
judgment
of
the
Supreme
Court
of
Canada,
said:
Finally,
I
believe
that
Arnup
J.A.
in
Corning
Glass,
supra,
has
aptly
distinguished
evidence
given
on
an
examination
for
discovery
by
a
person
produced
by
a
corporation
and
evidence
given
at
trial
by
an
employee
or
officer
of
that
corporation.
On
discovery,
such
an
employee
or
officer
is
the
corporation.
While,
strictly
speaking,
neither
Arnup,
J.A.,
nor
the
Supreme
Court
were
speaking
to
the
present
circumstances,
I
find
their
dicta
most
apposite.
As
to
the
compellability
of
its
officers
to
attend
on
the
examination
for
discovery,
the
learned
trial
judge,
at
46
(C.T.C.
168)
of
her
reasons,
after
considering
the
Corning
Glass
and
Paterson
decisions,
concluded
that
.
.
.
the
only
effect
of
refusing
to
order
the
officers
of
the
corporation
to
appear
for
discovery
in
the
present
case
would
be
to
postpone
the
obtaining
of
their
evidence
until
trial.
With
respect,
I
cannot
reconcile
that
conclusion
with
those
judgments.
I
should
have
thought
that
they
served
to
distinguish
rather
than
confound
the
nature
of
testimony
of
an
officer
as
a
witness
at
his
company's
trial
and
that
given
as
the
corporate
party's
mouthpiece
on
discovery.
In
my
opinion,
it
is
the
corporation
that
is
the
witness
when
it
is
the
party
being
examined
for
discovery.
As
such,
it
is
entitled
to
claim
whatever
benefit
the
law
provides
it
against
being
compelled
to
testify
and,
if
under
compulsion
or
otherwise
testifying,
against
self-incrimination,
vide
Klein
v.
Bell,
[1985]
S.C.R.
309
at
315;
[1955]
2
D.L.R.
513
at
518-19.
The
conclusions
of
the
learned
trial
judge,
in
the
order
dealt
with
in
this
appeal,
were:
1.
The
Appellant
was
a
compellable
witness
by
reason
of
sections
249
and
252
of
the
Customs
Act
and
the
Rules
of
Court.
2.
The
Appellant
was
entitled
to
claim
the
right
afforded
by
section
11(c)
of
the
Canadian
Charter
of
Rights
and
Freedoms
but
that
right
had
been
duly
abridged,
as
contemplated
by
section
1
of
the
Charter.
3.
The
Appellant's
common
law
privilege
against
self-incrimination
in
an
action
for
a
penalty
or
forfeiture
had
been
abolished
by
section
5
of
the
Canada
Evidence
Act,
R.S.C.
1970,
c.
E-10.
The
first
three
grounds
of
appeal
were
stated
by
the
appellant
as
follows:
1.
The
judgment
appealed
from
requires
the
appellant
to
give
evidence
for
the
respondent
and,
by
virtue
of
section
4
of
the
Canada
Evidence
Act,
the
appellant
is
not
competent
—
and
is,
therefore,
not
compellable
—
to
give
evidence
in
the
action
for
the
respondent.
2.
The
judgment
appealed
from
requires
the
appellant
to
give
evidence
for
the
respondent
and,
by
virtue
of
section
11(c)
of
the
Canadian
Charter
of
Rights
and
Freedoms,
the
appellant
has
a
right
not
to
be
compelled
to
give
evidence
in
the
action,
which
right
has
not
been
limited
by
virtue
of
section
1
of
the
Charter.
3.
The
judgment
appealed
from
requires
the
appellant
to
give
discovery
as
between
parties
before
trial
and
the
appellant,
as
a
defendant
in
the
action,
which
is
a
penal
action,
has
a
right
not
to
give
discovery
to
the
Respondent
before
trial.
As
to
the
first
ground
of
appeal,
the
pertinent
provisions
of
the
Canada
Evidence
Act
are
section
2
and
subsection
4(1).
2.
This
Part
applies
to
all
criminal
proceedings,
and
to
all
civil
proceedings
and
other
matters
whatever
respecting
which
the
Parliament
of
Canada
has
jurisdiction
in
this
behalf.
4.(1)
Every
person
charged
with
an
offence,
and,
except
as
otherwise
provided
in
this
section,
the
wife
or
husband,
as
the
case
may
be,
of
the
person
so
charged,
is
a
competent
witness
for
the
defence,
whether
the
person
so
charged
is
charged
solely
or
jointly
with
any
other
person.
The
learned
trial
judge
did
not
mention
section
4
in
her
lengthy
reasons.
I
assume
this
argument
was
not
urged
upon
her.
At
common
law,
a
party
to
an
action
was
not
a
competent
witness
at
all.
Vide,
The
Laws
of
England,
Halsbury,
First
Edition,
1910,
Butterworth
&
Co.,
London,
para.
777,
footnote
(r).
The
competence
of
a
party
to
be
a
witness
depends
on
statute.
Subsection
4(1)
of
the
Canada
Evidence
Act,
which
by
section
2
applies
to
the
present
proceeding,
makes
a
person
charged
with
an
offence
a
competent
witness
for
the
defence.
The
effect
of
the
order
in
issue
is
to
compel
the
person
charged
to
be
a
witness
for
the
plaintiff.
The
person
charged
with
an
offence
is
not
a
competent
witness,
except
for
the
defence,
and
is,
therefore,
not
a
compellable
witness
for
the
plaintiff
in
a
civil
proceeding
any
more
than,
in
a
criminal
proceeding,
that
person
would
be
a
compellable
witness
for
the
prosecution.
All
of
that
is,
of
course,
subject
to
any
statutory
provisions
to
the
contrary.
It
will
be
convenient
to
deal
with
those
later,
as
the
same
provisions
are
relied
on
as
excluding
the
application
of
paragraph
11(c)
of
the
Charter.
The
Charter
provides:
11.
Any
person
charged
with
an
offence
has
the
right
(c)
not
to
be
compelled
to
be
a
witness
in
proceedings
against
that
person
in
respect
of
the
offence;
1.
The
Canadian
Charter
of
Rights
and
Freedoms
guarantees
the
rights
and
freedoms
set
out
in
it
subject
only
to
such
reasonable
limits
prescribed
by
law
as
can
be
demonstrably
justified
in
a
free
and
democratic
society.
The
learned
trial
judge
found,
at
36
(C.T.C.
166),
that
.
.
.
subsection
11(c)
applies
to
the
proceedings
in
the
Federal
Court,
at
least
in
so
far
as
the
“deemed
forfeiture”
is
concerned.
I
have
already
indicated
my
disagreement
with
the
conclusion
that
the
proceedings
are
concerned
with
subject
matter
other
than
the
deemed
forfeiture.
Subject
to
that,
I
agree
with
the
conclusion
of
the
learned
trial
judge
and
her
reasons
therefor.
She
made
one
observation,
at
35
(C.T.C.
165),
which
merits
repetition
by
way
of
emphasis.
.
.
.
I
cannot
accept
that
the
Crown’s
right
to
elect
which
procedure
it
will
follow
should
determine
the
defendant’s
constitutional
rights.
Nor
can
I.
The
question
now
to
be
dealt
with
is
whether
the
constitutional
right
afforded
the
appellant
by
paragraph
11(c)
has
been
limited
at
all
by
law.
Only
if
that
is
the
case
does
the
inquiry
move
to
consider
whether
such
limitation
is
reasonable
and
whether
it
can
be
demonstrably
justified
in
a
free
and
democratic
society.
In
my
view,
precisely
the
same
inquiry
will
determine
whether
subsection
4(1)
of
the
Canada
Evidence
Act
has
been
made
inapplicable
so
as
to
render
the
appellant
a
competent
and,
hence,
compellable
witness
in
the
proceeding.
The
learned
trial
judge,
at
38
(C.T.C.
166),
held:
In
the
first
place
the
limit
on
the
right
not
to
be
compelled
to
be
a
witness
is
clearly
“prescribed
by
law”:
section
252
of
the
Customs
Act
read
together
with
the
Federal
Court
Act
and
Rules,
particularly
rule
465.
The
balance
of
her
reasons,
as
they
relate
to
the
question
at
all,
dealt
with
the
other
inquiries
required
by
section
1
of
the
Charter.
The
relevant
provisions
of
the
Customs
Act
are
subsection
249(1)
and
section
252.
The
headnote
“Procedure”
appears
immediately
before
section
249
and
applies
as
well
to
section
252.
Procedure
249.
(1)
All
penalties
and
forfeitures
incurred
under
this
Act,
or
any
other
law
relating
to
the
customs
or
to
trade
or
navigation,
may,
in
addition
to
any
other
remedy
provided
by
this
Act
or
by
law,
and
even
if
it
is
provided
that
the
offender
shall
be
or
become
liable
to
any
such
penalty
or
forfeiture
upon
summary
conviction,
be
prosecuted,
sued
for
and
recovered
with
full
costs
of
suit,
in
the
Federal
Court
of
Canada,
or
in
any
superior
court
having
jurisdiction
in
that
province
of
Canada
where
the
cause
of
prosecution
arises,
or
wherein
the
defendant
is
served
with
process.
252.
Every
prosecution
or
suit
in
the
Federal
Court
of
Canada,
or
in
any
superior
court
of
competent
jurisdiction,
for
the
recovery
or
enforcement
of
any
pen-
alty
or
forfeiture
imposed
by
this
Act,
or
by
any
other
law
relating
to
the
customs
or
to
trade
or
navigation,
may
be
commenced,
prosecuted
and
proceeded
with
in
accordance
with
any
rules
of
practice,
general
or
special,
established
by
the
court
for
Crown
suits
in
revenue
matters,
or
in
accordance
with
the
usual
practice
and
procedure
of
the
court
in
civil
cases,
in
so
far
as
such
practice
and
procedure
are
applicable,
and,
whenever
the
same
are
not
applicable,
then
in
accordance
with
the
directions
of
the
court
or
a
judge.
I
have
already
set
ou
Rule
465(1)(b).
I
do
not
believe
there
are
any
other
provisions
of
that
lengthy
Rule
that
require
recitation
for
present
purposes.
Rule
465
has
been
made
under
the
general
authority
of
subsection
46(1)
of
the
Federal
Court
Act,
R.S.C.
1970
(2nd
Supp.)
c.
10.
None
of
the
subjects
specifically
dealt
with
in
paragraphs
46(1)(a)
to
(i)
inclusive
are
relevant
to
this
inquiry.
46.
(1)
Subject
to
the
approval
of
the
Governor
in
Council
and
subject
also
to
subsection
(4),
the
judges
of
the
Court
may,
from
time
to
time,
make
general
rules
and
orders
not
inconsistent
with
this
or
any
other
Act
of
the
Parliament
of
Canada,
(a)
for
regulating
the
practice
and
procedure
in
the
Trial
Division
and
in
the
Court
of
Appeal,
including,
without
restricting
the
generality
of
the
foregoing,
(2)
Rules
and
orders
made
under
this
section
may
extend
to
matters
arising
out
of
or
in
the
course
of
proceedings
under
any
Act
involving
practice
and
procedure
or
otherwise,
for
which
no
provision
is
made
by
that
or
any
other
Act
but
for
which
it
is
found
necessary
to
provide
in
order
to
ensure
the
proper
working
of
that
Act
and
the
better
attainment
of
its
objects.
I
have
set
out
subsection
46(2)
only
because
it
seems
to
complement
the
provision
of
section
252
of
the
Customs
Act
that
an
action
for
a
forfeiture
may
be
conducted
under
the
generally
applicable
Rules
of
Court.
I
find
nothing
in
either
subsection
249(1)
or
section
252
of
the
Customs
Act
that
expressly
limits
the
constitutionally
guaranteed
right
of
paragraph
11(c)
of
the
Charter
or
expressly,
or
by
necessary
implication,
limits
the
application
of
subsection
4(1)
of
the
Canada
Evidence
Act
to
a
defendant
in
an
action
brought
in
the
Federal
Court
under
the
authority
of
subsection
249(1).
The
only
way
in
which
such
a
limitation
can
be
found
is
if
Rule
465
must
be
construed
as
imposing
it.
The
Rule
is
undoubtedly
law.
I
do
not
think
that,
on
a
proper
construction,
Rule
465
purports
either
to
render
an
incompetent
witness
competent
nor
a
non-compellable
witness
compellable.
There
is
no
point
in
entering
into
a
lengthy
discourse
on
this
subject
because,
if
the
Rule
purported
to
achieve
either
result,
it
would,
to
that
extent,
be
ultra
vires
the
rule
making
authority
of
section
46(1)
of
the
Federal
Court
Act
which,
by
its
very
terms,
precludes
a
valid
rule
being
inconsistent
with
subsection
4(1)
of
the
Canada
Evidence
Act.
Parliament's
intention
to
empower
its
delegate
to
limit
a
constitutionally
guaranteed
right
by
making
rules
regulating
practice
and
procedure
would,
at
the
very
least,
have
to
be
explicitly
stated
before
I
should
be
prepared
even
to
consider
giving
such
a
rule
that
effect.
In
my
opinion,
the
learned
trial
judge
erred
in
concluding
that
the
Customs
Act
and
Rules
of
Court
limit
the
appellant's
constitutional
right,
under
paragraph
11(c)
of
the
Charter,
not
to
be
compelled
to
be
a
witness
in
proceedings
against
it
in
respect
of
offences
with
which
it
is
charged.
I
am
also
of
the
opinion
that
the
appellant
is
not
a
competent
witness
in
these
proceedings
by
reason
of
subsection
4(1)
of
the
Canada
Evidence
Act
and
is
not,
therefore,
a
compellable
witness
on
its
examination
for
discovery.
It
is,
accordingly,
not
necessary
to
deal
with
the
third
ground
of
appeal
and
I
see
no
useful
purpose
to
be
served
by
doing
so.
The
appellant
is
not
a
compellable
witness;
it
would
be
idle
to
speculate
on
its
privileges
against
self-incrimination
as
if
it
were.
It
is
likewise
unnecessary
to
deal
with
the
fourth
ground
of
appeal
but
I
think
it
desirable
to
do
so
briefly.
It
is
entirely
unrelated
to
the
other
grounds
and
turns
on
the
fact
that
neither
of
the
individuals
named
in
the
order
reside
in
Canada.
The
appellant
stated
it
as
follows:
even
if
the
appellant
were
subject
to
being
compelled
to
submit
to
examination
for
discovery,
the
judgment
appealed
from
is
a
delegation
to
the
examiner
of
the
power
to
fix
the
“place”
for
the
examination,
which
power
must
be
exercised
by
the
Court
in
a
case
where
the
person
to
be
questioned
is
out
of
the
jurisdiction
as
the
named
officers
are.
Rule
465(12)
provides:
(12)
Where
an
individual
to
be
questioned
on
an
examination
for
discovery
is
temporarily
or
permanently
out
of
the
jurisdiction,
it
may
be
ordered
by
the
Court,
or
the
parties
may
agree,
that
the
examination
for
discovery
be
at
such
place,
and
take
place
in
such
manner,
as
may
be
deemed
just
and
convenient.
In
my
opinion,
it
is
clear
that,
in
the
circumstances,
it
was
not
open
to
the
learned
trial
judge,
in
effect,
to
delegate
to
the
examiner,
who
is
empowered
by
Rule
465(7)
to
issue
an
appointment,
the
responsibility
of
selecting
the
place
at
which
the
examination
was
to
be
conducted.
The
Court
is
not
obliged
to
settle
the
details
of
the
time
and
place
of
the
examination
but,
if
the
individual
to
be
examined
is
not
in
Canada,
the
Court
must
at
least,
absent
agreement,
direct
whether
the
examination
is
to
be
conducted
in
Canada
and,
if
not,
designate
the
jurisdiction
where
it
is
to
proceed.
I
would
allow
this
appeal
with
costs,
set
aside
the
order
of
the
Trial
Division
recited
above
and,
pursuant
to
paragraph
52(b)
of
the
Federal
Court
Act,
I
would
dismiss
the
application
to
the
Trial
Division
with
costs.
Appeal
allowed.